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Sep 9 @ 1:39pm
The 11th Reason Why: DON'T TRUST KERNEL ANTI-CHEATS!!!
Many recently have decided to refund the game, some have to because they have no choice depending on their motherboard or operating system. These are not all the cheaters, these are people who don't want to hand a third-party developer ring-0 access to their operating system and force Secure Boot on just to play a video game.
That's not paranoia, it's a reasonable line to draw, and there's real reasons for why.

That being said, I'm making this post to inform gamers - so that they can make an informed decision on if they want to take the risk, this is in no way to attack the reputation of the developers or the sales of the game, and I do have some respect that they have been quite transparent and were up front about this in their recent video: "The 11th Reason Why Not to Buy WARDOGS." Even if I believe, they didn't really go well into depth as to why this could be a major reason for why you should not.

HERE'S TWO BIG EXAMPLES OF WHY KERNEL-LEVEL ANTI-CHEAT IS EXTREMELY RISKY:

Apex Legends had a major 2024 ALGS hacking incident. During a live tournament, two pro players got hit with an RCE exploit mid-match, one had an aimbot switched on, the other saw wallhacks and a cheat overlay appear - forcing EA to postpone the finals. It was said that affected players PCs may have been exposed to a rootkit or other malicious software and recommended a clean OS reinstall, plus changing passwords immediately. Even though EAC publicly denied the vulnerability was in their software specifically, the fact that a security research group's first instinct was "wipe your OS, you may have a rootkit" tells you everything about how much trust these systems require and how bad it gets when something goes wrong.

Genshin Impact's mhyprot2.sys kernel driver got weaponized by ransomware actors to kill antivirus software system-wide, and it kept working even after the game was uninstalled, because it was a validly signed driver just sitting on the machine.

Kernel level anti-cheat is the "martial law" option for dealing with cheaters, it's a highly extreme, and invasive response to a threat most players never even personally encounter, and there are proven, less drastic alternatives. VAC and similar systems are far more limited in access, but they're not toothless. Valve's VACnet/VAC Live system, for example, catches cheaters through server-side behavioral analysis (aim patterns, reaction times, movement) rather than scanning your OS at all, and it's had real, measurable success without ever touching ring 0. Keep in mind these scans, can also be very non-privacy respecting, and kernel-level access makes that kind of overreach possible in a way user-mode software simply can't.

I hate cheaters as much as anyone, but I don't think gamers should get used to accepting kernel-level access to their PC as the normal cost of playing a multiplayer game. It hands enormous trust to the developer and the anti-cheat vendor, and it opens the door for real attackers to abuse that same access as both examples above show actually happened, not hypothetically. It's the equivalent of catching a virus from an .exe you never even ran, the only mistake was having the game installed at all.

MAIN POINT BEING: never let a third party have kernel-level access to your machine just to stop cheating in a video game.
There are better options, and the cost of crossing that line just isn't worth it.
That being said it is unlikely, but not something we should accept as a common thing in the gaming landscape.

EDIT: With that, I will only further be answer genuine questions or meaningful arguments.
Please observe this masterpiece below. its for everyone who doesnt read.
Originally posted by Tr3m0R:
Originally posted by Zanshin:
Crazy essay, cba to read

That is on you and is merely evidence of being part of systemic conditioning to consent by learned helplessness. Millions do live by a TLDR meme that was embedded into tech platform discourse to prevent people from taking resources that would be difficult to maintain and expensive to scrape.

One cannot comment if the “essay is crazy” because you admitted you cannot be bothered to read. Can’t have both being true if you fo not read.

The OP wrote a respectful post and clearly was written with a level of empathy to the studio and to the community and that is rare to see in posters as I try to be like that as well.

One should be well informed about ring 0 access because I had to deep dive into it a few years ago and there are numerous problems to external partners that provide a service advertising one thing, but requiring access to information worth infinitely more value. Who doesn’t think that some companies and individuals would be tempted to potentially use the permissions and signatures it is allowed to also use for other reasons? We do live in a world centered around predicting and fine tuning every single bit of information as it is more valuable than anything else.
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Showing 1-15 of 261 comments
and what´s the bad thing about secure boot you forgot to mention?
Crazy essay, cba to read
Sadly the cheating situation is getting way out of control and there comes a team when game companies NEED to take back control, with a great game like WARDOGS we need protection for the community. We cant just sit back and watch the cheat fest take off and then destroy what could have been an amazing game, if nothing is done then players will complain that they let the cheaters win.
The game DEVS have the right attitude and other game companies should take note, now activate that secure boot ASAP. Full DEFCON 1 against the cheaters.
solution is simple: dont have any personal data on your gaming rig and enjoy less cheaters in game
the biggest issue imo is they still haven't updated the disclosure on the store page. they still need to do that before launch or its false advertising.
Originally posted by 123:
and what´s the bad thing about secure boot you forgot to mention?
thats because its less concern than the main focus here, Secure boot isnt particularly bad as as a security feature. So there are a few reasons as to why this is a bad thing though.

Some players can't if they wanted to, for reasons unrelated to the game. Dual-boot setups, older motherboards without proper UEFI implementations, custom Linux distros, retro OS installs, and some prebuilt/OEM systems that ship with Secure Boot disabled or missing keys by default all get excluded. Some people will just straight up be able to play the game when it comes out, and may not even be aware, especially on the subject of the "older motherboards without UEFI implementations" part.

It removes user choice over their own machine. Plenty of people disable Secure Boot intentionally for legitimate reasons, custom bootloaders, certain drivers, virtualization setups, dev work.... People have to give that up just to be allowed to launch a game. Its asking a lot.

The big final one though? It doesn't actually solve the problem it's paired with. Secure Boot only verifies that a driver is signed, not that it's safe. The Genshin Impact example above is the perfect illustration: mhyprot2.sys was a validly signed driver, so Secure Boot would have happily let it load.... AND IT STILL GOT WEAPONIZED BY RANSOMWARE ACTORS! Forcing Secure Boot on gives a false sense of "this makes the kernel driver requirement safe," when in practice a compromised or vulnerable signed driver sails right past it. This is their way of saying "its ok guys, this system will keep you safe from an extreme invasive anti-cheat we are forcing as a requirement." History has shown, this is in fact, not ok. Its still too much risk and deciding to use a nuke against the problem that puts your system at risk rather than taking a reasonable precaution. Using the nuke, instead of the glock. That risks burning you, and spreading radiation all over, rather than simply using bullets to take out the evil doers. "Don't blame us, blame the hackers." I have to blame them a little bit, because is stopping game ruining hackers worth putting all players at risk of serious system level danger? I just disagree.
Originally posted by Zanshin:
Crazy essay, cba to read
I dont think you read the first bold at the very least, if you did, nonetheless I hope you understand the possible risk and have fun.
Originally posted by 123:
and what´s the bad thing about secure boot you forgot to mention?
requiring secure boot is only meaningful when you are employing kernel level anticheat, so there is no separation between the two. Also if you dual boot an OS that doesn't support secure boot, people are not going to turn it on and off every time they want to play 1 specific game, they just won't buy it.
Originally posted by dead elf:
the biggest issue imo is they still haven't updated the disclosure on the store page. they still need to do that before launch or its false advertising.
Yeah absolutely, and the problem is despite this, people have already preordered, im sure nonetheless everyone will realise this and refund if they need, but it kinda makes you think this should be unchangeable after preorders are available. A little extra safety net.
You're only saying this because you're a Linux fan or whatever.
Originally posted by i3eatcode:
Sadly the cheating situation is getting way out of control and there comes a team when game companies NEED to take back control, with a great game like WARDOGS we need protection for the community. We cant just sit back and watch the cheat fest take off and then destroy what could have been an amazing game, if nothing is done then players will complain that they let the cheaters win.
The game DEVS have the right attitude and other game companies should take note, now activate that secure boot ASAP. Full DEFCON 1 against the cheaters.
Its not worth it, especially when it puts all players at risk of something much more serious. Lets weigh what matter more here.

1. You have a few more cheaters maybe, a few more cracks, its sometimes reduces the quailty of the game.

2. You and everyones mom who even has this game installed can possibly get hacked with malware, ransomware, RAT's etc. Allll so hackers that appear in game time to time wont click perfectly on your head. While the very hackers that COULD click perfectly on your head will still get through the cracks sometimes, just a bit more rarely, and the very same hackers will be able to do these hacks to you possibly instead of clicking your head perfectly.

Decisions, decisions..... take the strongest routes you can, without it being kernel level.
Originally posted by seg_x:
You're only saying this because you're a Linux fan or whatever.
Now, I do use Linux, this is absolutely untrue though, as there are even kernel level anti cheat games that work on linux, in fact, they can implement this later, and im kinda weirded out that they havent yet because theres no reason. Tons of games have. Regardless, no im still not going to play a game because of this, and again, I care about players safety so im telling them the risk they are taking. I would also not get this game if I was on windows or mac. This is an everyone problem, and 100% irrelevant to Linux.

In fact when I found out about this on BF6 while I was still on Windows 11, I chose not to, because I do in fact, no the risk, and will not trust. I've seen what happens, I've seen the mistakes of the past others have.
Originally posted by angelsenvy228:
Originally posted by 123:
and what´s the bad thing about secure boot you forgot to mention?
requiring secure boot is only meaningful when you are employing kernel level anticheat, so there is no separation between the two. Also if you dual boot an OS that doesn't support secure boot, people are not going to turn it on and off every time they want to play 1 specific game, they just won't buy it.
Also, imagine how many people can afford solely a gaming pc with nothing special on it.... Right.

Even then, they probably loooove checking their email and using Youtube etc maybe logging into their bank once or twice..... Yeah, theres another problem that goes beyond your personal files....

Even if someone did do nothing but make their gaming rig a STEAM MACHINE situation, I just dont see that happening or being probable for like 90% of everyone. Someone would probably forget or mess up too if they arent good on habits.
Originally posted by USHER-雨:
Originally posted by angelsenvy228:
requiring secure boot is only meaningful when you are employing kernel level anticheat, so there is no separation between the two. Also if you dual boot an OS that doesn't support secure boot, people are not going to turn it on and off every time they want to play 1 specific game, they just won't buy it.
Also, imagine how many people can afford solely a gaming pc with nothing special on it.... Right.

Even then, they probably loooove checking their email and using Youtube etc maybe logging into their bank once or twice..... Yeah, theres another problem that goes beyond your personal files....

Even if someone did do nothing but make their gaming rig a STEAM MACHINE situation, I just dont see that happening or being probable for like 90% of everyone. Someone would probably forget or mess up too if they arent good on habits.
yeah, this really sucks, thanks for bringing my attention to it. I was waiting to dive into this game tomorrow after having so much fun with my friends in the beta, and i can accept kernel anti cheat even, but not the threat of forcing secure boot at any time it strikes their fancy, since this would remove my ability to play the game without drastically altering my system setup which i'm not going to do. So I'm not going to buy a game with a sword of damocles over my head that it can be taken away at any point in time lmao.
Okay, so what's the solution to combat cheating? Because this is how I see it as a simpleton - Cheaters pay upwards of $5000+ per package. Gaming devs have sold info on how best to write in programs for cheating to the sites that then sell these packages. There is no way to stop it. Every attempt is like the D.A.R.E. program and the war on drugs. Then legit players rail against the developers of games saying they aren't doing anything to fight it. Who has the answer?
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Date Posted: Sep 9 @ 1:39pm
Posts: 261